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Okrzyki, przyjaciel!

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WW III? [Jul. 13th, 2006|12:13 pm]
Okrzyki, przyjaciel!
What the FUCK is Israel doing bombing the Beirut Airport?

What the FUCK is Bush doing saying it's OK?

At this point I think they're basically trying to bring about world war III.

Or maybe Bush is doing the Evangelical Immanentizing the Eschaton thing -- have Israel go on a rampage, and start rebuilding the temple so the Baby Jeebus will come back.

Am I the only one who think this is sick beyond belief?
linkReply

Comments:
From: elkay
2006-07-13 05:23 pm (UTC)
No.
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[User Picture]From: mkb_technologie
2006-07-13 05:24 pm (UTC)
you're not alone in thinking it's fucked, and you're not alone in thinking of bush attempting to bring about the eschaton.

maybe the terrorists are onto this and are trying to stop bush and israel from brining about the end of the world!
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[User Picture]From: clobby
2006-07-13 05:36 pm (UTC)
I don't know where you're getting your news, but Bush is NOT condoning Israel's attacks on Beirut.
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[User Picture]From: chaircrusher
2006-07-13 05:43 pm (UTC)
I heard Bush on the radio, bitching about Hezbollah, and then saying "Israel has a right to defend itself."

Sounds to me like he's condoning everything Israel is doing.

I'm no fan of Hammas, or Hezbollah, but the Israelis have screwed the pooch on this one, and since they're basically 100% the USA's proxy, so has the US.

If the US Government ever gets serious about peace btw Israel and the Palestinians, there will be peace. All the US has to say is "Cut a deal or we're done sending you billions of dollars and tons of weapons." All of the diplomatic work done by the US since Clinton left office has been either incompetent, disingenuous or both.
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[User Picture]From: clobby
2006-07-13 05:50 pm (UTC)
Every country has the right to defend itself. Bush immediately followed up that statement by saying that Israel should not do anything to damage the government of Lebanon. I suppose this means "I agree that you have something to be upset with, Israel, but don't go overboard and make things really worse".

In a way, his words are not condoning or defending the actions of either country. Which in my opinion is probably the wisest thing to do when asked to comment on a situation that is as delicate as this.

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[User Picture]From: clobby
2006-07-13 05:52 pm (UTC)
I could give a fuck about George Bush, I'm just tending to understand why he was (most likely) directed to make a statement such as this.
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[User Picture]From: chaircrusher
2006-07-13 05:50 pm (UTC)
But the root problem never gets addressed. And everything Israel does, they do with the explicit approval of the US Government. There are a lot of people on both sides who just want peace, and the US continues to pour gasoline on the fire by not becoming an effective mediation partner, and reining in Israels worst tendencies.

Again there are plenty of assholes to go around on all sides of the issue, but the root problem is that Israel treats Palestinian non-combatants horribly, giving them no stake in peace, so they support the wingnuts and send their kids on the bus to blow themselves up. And the US not only condones it, but is instrumental in providing the money and materials to perpetuate a horrible situation.

War is diplomacy by other means. Wars go on until no one sees any further profit in them. What we're witnessing isn't in any way inevitable -- everything that is happening happens because people far removed from any danger get out of bed, eat a hearty breakfast, and decide to continue to fuck shit up. It's every bit as sick as any other human atrocity.
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From: thecnote
2006-07-14 03:59 pm (UTC)
While we're looking on the bright side (however small), here's a cool project: Neve Shalom - Wahat al-Salam.

("Hebrew and Arabic for Oasis of Peace [Isaiah 32:18]): A village, jointly established by Jewish and Palestinian Arab citizens of Israel, that is engaged in educational work for peace, equality and understanding between the two peoples.")

I met a woman on retreat who lives there. They all speak Hebrew and Arabic, raise their kids speaking both languages, teach them about peace and generally try to address the roots of the conflict and provide an example to the world that Israelis and Palestinians can live together peacefully.

You can imagine how she felt when she emerged from 3 weeks of Zen breathing to see what she'd missed at home...
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[User Picture]From: curly
2006-07-13 06:17 pm (UTC)
i hear what you are saying, kent. fair points. but let's flip it: who's going to reign in the palestinians? doesn't lebanon have a role in reigning in hezbollah? shouldn't france, russia, etc. all have some blame in this mess too, since they support the palestinians?
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[User Picture]From: chaircrusher
2006-07-13 08:15 pm (UTC)
"Who's going to reign in the palestinians"

Let me be a jerk, and point out you meant "rein" as in "rein in a horse". A king "reigns."

But the question is a good one. My quick answer is "I don't know." but the long answer is that no one has ever negotiated with the Palestinians in good faith. The US has 'mediated' in the past, meaning they've told the Israelis what to say and do, and asked the Palestinians to pretend they don't know that we prop the Israelis up with billions of dollars and hundreds of tons of weaponry every year.

The Bush administration doesn't even -pretend- to mediate. They just stand around clucking their tongues, and try and figure out how they could possibly blow more shit up what with the military being hyper-over-extended in Iraq.

What needs to happen is that Condi needs to meet with the Israeli Prime Minister and say "Right now, you've got to cut all the evil shit you've been doing the fuck out. I know you have Arab teenagers blowing up your buses. Sucks to be you. But if you're not willing to be -better- than they are, to stop being brutal, corrupt fucks to the Palestinians, well then do it on someone else's dime."

The United States has huge influence with Israel. The Palestinians -- well , a vanishingly small minority of them -- do evil things to Israelis that are unjustifiable. But this isn't an algebra equation -- the Israelis can't use what the Palestinians have done as a justification for their brutality and bad faith. They have been complete shitheads to the Arab population since forever, If they're our 'allies' then we can hold them to a higher standard.

If the US started trying to modulate the Israeli behavior, and worked substantively on improving the everyday life of the people of the West Bank and Gaza, things would change. But no, instead it's "Oh, I'm sorry, we have to kill, rape and torture Iraqis just now -- no time for Palestinians at the mo' -- we'll get back to you at our earliest convenience. How does 'NEVER' work for you?"


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[User Picture]From: curly
2006-07-13 08:23 pm (UTC)
Let me be a jerk, and point out you meant "rein" as in "rein in a horse". A king "reigns."

dammit!

...but the long answer is that no one has ever negotiated with the Palestinians in good faith.

i might concede that point, but, have the palestinians ever negotiated with israel in good faith? that's hard to imagine when hamas won't even recognize israel as a state. they are very clear that their end goal is no israel. i can't exactly blame israel for feeling a bit defensive then.
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[User Picture]From: chaircrusher
2006-07-13 08:45 pm (UTC)
There's no doubt that the Palestinians have been ill-served by their political leaders. But there was relative peace in Israel from the time of the Oslo accords up until the Intafadah was kicked off by Ariel Sharon going to the Temple Mount. Israelis used to go on picnics on the West Bank.

The sad fact is, as I said before, there is a war going on because there's political or economic gain that someone sees in it. That goes for the Israelis, the Palestinians, and the Americans.
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[User Picture]From: pipecock
2006-07-14 01:07 am (UTC)
the only unfortunate thing is that there's not a big ass bomb that will only kill religious nutcases.
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From: elkay
2006-07-14 09:16 am (UTC)
LOL
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[User Picture]From: pipecock
2006-07-14 06:56 pm (UTC)
do you feel your grip on sanity slipping away? youve been agreeing with me alot recently!

;)
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[User Picture]From: dica
2006-07-14 02:49 am (UTC)
How is it "defense" to bomb an airport as well as all major roads and supply routes because soldiers were kidnapped? Is it okay for the other side to launch missiles at houses? How many civilians on both sides have died thus far?

Is Israel fighting the "bad people"?
Is Lebanon fighting the "bad people"?
Does it matter?

Who is innocent, and who is guilty? The ones who always suffer the most in these situations are civilians -- on both sides.

It's the 1980s all over again.
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